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Author name #1
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User title: Kitten Blaster
Member since Feb 2010 · 90 posts
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Subject: dont like the Discovery Channel? take hostages!
totally reminds me of an episode of cowboy bebop.


article and video: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11160046
Quote by excerpt:
A "small number" of hostages have been taken by an armed man inside the Discovery Communications headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, police say.

The gunman, named by US media as James Lee, had metallic canisters strapped to his chest and a handgun when he entered the building according to the police.

it would seem the issue has been resolved with a totally killer ending!  they killed him!

article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11159256
Quote by excerpts:
A gunman who took three hostages at the Discovery Communications headquarters in the US has been shot dead by police and his captives have been set free.

[...]

The area around the building in Silver Spring, Maryland, was sealed off as police negotiated with the man. After several hours, police began to fear for the safety of the hostages, said Montgomery County Police Chief J Thomas Manger.

The man then pulled out a handgun and told everyone to remain still.

translation: "NOBODY MOVE!"


A spokesman for Discovery Communications said the company had known the gunman before this incident but "not taken his threats or demands seriously".

FAIL.


He reportedly was also the author of the website savetheplanetprotest.com, where he demanded that the Discovery Channel broadcast programmes that would help "to save the planet".

so i figured i would check out his crazy page and it's a manifesto.  if you check the source you will see he went crazy with (because of?) microsoft office 10. :)

<meta name=ProgId content=FrontPage.Editor.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10">

also, i figure his page will get wiped off the net, so i might as well post a copy of it which i'll put in the next post if you want to read it.  however, i would like to point out some hilarious excerpts.  the overarching point of the thing is that humans are evil and people need to having "filthy human children". :nuts:

...people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution.

All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants...

...World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!

...Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies.

Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what's left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.

...All human procreation and farming must cease!
Author name #2
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Quote by crazy_guy:
The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:

1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!

2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.

3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!

4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??

5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)

6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!

7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!

8. Saving the Planet means saving what's left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the human race from breeding any more disgusting human babies! You're the media, you can reach enough people. It's your resposibility because you reach so many minds!!!

9. Develop shows that will correct and dismantle the dangerous US world economy. Find solutions for their disasterous Ponzi-Casino economy before they take the world to another nuclear war.

10. Stop all shows glorifying human birthing on all your channels and on TLC. Stop Future Weapons shows or replace the dialogue condemning the people behind these developments so that the shows become exposes rather than advertisements of Arms sales and development!

11. You're also going to find solutions for unemployment and housing. All these unemployed people makes me think the US is headed toward more war.

Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what's left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.

For every human born, ACRES of wildlife forests must be turned into farmland in order to feed that new addition over the course of 60 to 100 YEARS of that new human's lifespan! THIS IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FOREST CREATURES!!!! All human procreation and farming must cease!

It is the responsiblity of everyone to preserve the planet they live on by not breeding any more children who will continue their filthy practices. Children represent FUTURE catastrophic pollution whereas their parents are current pollution. NO MORE BABIES! Population growth is a real crisis. Even one child born in the US will use 30 to a thousand times more resources than a Third World child. It's like a couple are having 30 babies even though it's just one! If the US goes in this direction maybe other countries will too!

Also, war must be halted. Not because it's morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!

The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

The humans? The planet does not need humans.

You MUST KNOW the human population is behind all the pollution and problems in the world, and YET you encourage the exact opposite instead of discouraging human growth and procreation. Surely you MUST ALREADY KNOW this!

I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it.

These are the demands and sayings of Lee.
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When people talk about the breakdown of civilization, this is the kind of thing they're talking about. But I think it's worth taking a minute to get inside Lee's head, if only for the sake of human kindness.

Here's a person who was not acknowledged. He was nobody, and he wasn't at all important. And those are actually things that he has in common with many of us. But in this age of narcissism, of celebrity without accomplishment, there's a tremendous pressure to be somebody. When we measure success in fame, or in acclaim, or in number of Twitter followers, we shouldn't be surprised that people feel the need to be noticed in similar ways.

If you read Lee's manifesto and take him at his word, you can't say he didn't have good intentions. He was concerned about overpopulation, endangered species, and poor consumption habits. And he obviously had an awareness that the Discovery channel is connected to these issues. But when I say that he wasn't acknowledged, I'm observing that there was not one friend, one co-worker, or one family member who had an awareness that Lee was the type of person who would threaten violence to get what he wanted. It would have taken only one of these social contacts to keep him from acting out, and possibly keeping him connected to the rest of the sensible world. This is why it's important to have regular social contact, because you have to rely on family and friends to let you know when you're out of line.

I feel relief that nobody was hurt or killed. But I also feel regret that our western civilization, with all its record and regard, couldn't find a way to reach this person and include him.
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Quote by Kendrick:
Here's a person who was not acknowledged. He was nobody, and he wasn't at all important. And those are actually things that he has in common with many of us. But in this age of narcissism, of celebrity without accomplishment, there's a tremendous pressure to be somebody. When we measure success in fame, or in acclaim, or in number of Twitter followers, we shouldn't be surprised that people feel the need to be noticed in similar ways.

i disagree.  if that were the case, there would be a lot more incidents like this.  am i surprised this happened? well, yeah!  seriously, of all the people in the world that have gone off the rails and created a hostage/barricade situation (you know, the kind where they call in a negotiator) making demands to further their cause (no, escaping does not count as a cause)?  it's rare i'm sure but with 6 billion people on the planet, there is always going to be some idiot who will try something that everyone else thinks is stupid/bizarre/insane.  if you dont believe me, just look at the darwin awards or the idiots on youtube.


Quote by Kendrick:
If you read Lee's manifesto and take him at his word, you can't say he didn't have good intentions. He was concerned about overpopulation, endangered species, and poor consumption habits.

that depends what you consider to be a good intention.  he's trying to "save" the planet at the expense of humanity.  his posted goals just stop short of exterminating mankind.  he wanted to eliminate freedoms and indoctrinate the public.  what do you think he would have done if he had an army under his command?  i think this guy would gladly be the next Stalin or Hitler, committing genocide.  so if you can say Stalin and Hitler has good intentions then you could also say so did this guy.


Quote by Kendrick:
But when I say that he wasn't acknowledged, I'm observing that there was not one friend, one co-worker, or one family member who had an awareness that Lee was the type of person who would threaten violence to get what he wanted. It would have taken only one of these social contacts to keep him from acting out, and possibly keeping him connected to the rest of the sensible world. This is why it's important to have regular social contact, because you have to rely on family and friends to let you know when you're out of line.

nein!  my conclusion is that there wasnt anyone because he pushed everyone away with his extremism.  really it's a good thing because if he was able to befriend people with his extremism, you have the makings of malevolent dictator.
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Quote by Gravis:
Quote by Kendrick:
But when I say that he wasn't acknowledged, I'm observing that there was not one friend, one co-worker, or one family member who had an awareness that Lee was the type of person who would threaten violence to get what he wanted. It would have taken only one of these social contacts to keep him from acting out, and possibly keeping him connected to the rest of the sensible world. This is why it's important to have regular social contact, because you have to rely on family and friends to let you know when you're out of line.

nein!  my conclusion is that there wasnt anyone because he pushed everyone away with his extremism.  really it's a good thing because if he was able to befriend people with his extremism, you have the makings of malevolent dictator.

I say that's not acceptable. It's not that people should be befriending people like this, it's that he should have a support structure already. Something built up from childhood, with a mixture of obligation and familiarity. Did Lee have family who loved him in spite of his attitude? Did he have friends from a time before he was nuts?

You seem to be saying that it's acceptable to push these people away, and I challenge you to defend that assertion.
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Quote by Kendrick:
I say that's not acceptable. It's not that people should be befriending people like this, it's that he should have a support structure already. Something built up from childhood, with a mixture of obligation and familiarity. Did Lee have family who loved him in spite of his attitude? Did he have friends from a time before he was nuts?

maybe he had all of that, maybe not.


Quote by Kendrick:
You seem to be saying that it's acceptable to push these people away, and I challenge you to defend that assertion.

no, what i'm saying is that i think unless it was a person that embraced his point of view, he distance himself from them.  this resulted in him being isolated.  you cant force people to have friends, it just doesnt work like that.

in short, his extremism caused his isolation in spite of efforts by others.


now, that said, i'm saying it's a good thing that he was not a charming and good speaker because he could turn people to support his point of view.  hitler was a fantastic speaker who rallied people to follow him and l look how that turned out.
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Gravis, are you saying that it's acceptable for people to be weeded out? Because people aren't weeds.

It's facile to judge Hitler after the fact, but nothing that he did in the world could be construed to be positive unless you happen to be an impoverished German who managed to benefit financially from the war. And while it might be entertaining to imagine how Hitler might have been different if he had gotten formal art instruction, or if his father had lived longer, or if the ethnic minorities in Prague and Warsaw had treated him better, it's pretty moot to do so seventy years after the fact.

No, you can't force people to have friends. Human beings will naturally be unequal in that regard. Can you encourage people to look out for each other? Can you make it socially obligated for complete strangers to take responsibility for each other? In many ways Lee is like a homeless person, in that he was in trouble and nobody noticed. You have no trouble accepting that Lee pushed his friends and family away and isolated himself, and I'm saying that western civilization is rich enough and powerful enough that he shouldn't have been able to do that so easily. Every English-speaking country is full of advanced medicine and social programs and public services that exist to help desperate mental illness. Either we're not doing enough, or we're not doing it right.

At risk of going off on a tangent, I don't get any pleasure out of schadenfreude.
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I don't know this man's story, specifically, bu I can say from experience that there are people you just can't help, no matter how much you want to.  Whether it's pride or fear or disinterest, some people will simply rebuff your attempts to assist, and that's annoying, but a fact of life. 

I know people like this, who simply can't understand what they're doing wrong but refuse all attempts to tell them.  When this person snaps, it might not be a result of neglect or inattention, it's very possible that there was nothing to be done.
BLEARGH
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The older I get, the less I accept that. Forces of nature and acts of God are things I can accept having no influence on. It's very hard for me to accept that I can't have any influence on another troubled human being, because a sense of egalitarianism would make me suspect that there's no help for me either, or for any of us when we need it.

This is why it's so important for me to look at large social groups and institutional organizations. One person might not have been able to help James Lee. A healthy community might have been able to steer him away from madness and early death. A sustained social atmosphere might even have found a place for him to contribute.

People aren't weeds, and we can't pull them up and pretend the rest of the metaphorical garden is just fine. That he acted out like he did reflects poorly on the rest of us, and I think that's really what bothers me here. I can't point my finger and laugh.
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Interesting.  The older I get the more convinced I am that some people are simply unreachable.  I have always believed that, given time, I could reach a common understanding and could reason with people.  But, sadly, I no longer believe it's true.  I have a good example of a person I've known who I believe to be unhelpable.  I won't include specific details here, in the off chance they stumble across this post.

Now, you may think they can be helped, but my life is too short to keep trying.  I've done it, I've spent the time, their family has, their workmates and classmates and friends have, but this person is still alone 'cause absolutely nothing has worked and no one has the infinite patience and time to keep on being there for them.

TBH I suspect they are autistic, for their inability to read people is a large part of their problem.  But that opens up a whole new box of problems: How does your belief function in the face of physical malfunction?  How can we tell for sure if this is the cause?  What do we do with people literally, functionally unable to relate to other people?  I've read about people who simply don't recognize the people around them as things that belongs to their species, and are unable to feel any kind of empathy as a result.  What happens when these people get guns?  It's not a stretch to imagine these people being a very short shove away from taking violent action against 'people' they feel no empathy towards.

But yeah.  I know for sure from personal experience there are people who do not respond to sustained attempts to make them feel loved and included.  It's sad, and I'd change it if I could, but I'm out of ideas.
BLEARGH
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One of the things that's hard for me is seeing such change happen in the long term. I may not be personally able to help out a severely autistic nephew who is old enough to physically hurt his parents. Is it worth me trying to effect change in the rest of the world a little bit, so that life is easier for the people without common sense and empathy, and their caregivers?

It's obviously too late for James Lee, but if any good is to come out of his situation then there should be a recognition of others like him. My life is probably too short to be successful, but I can't stop trying because I need to count on others to pick up where I leave off. I shouldn't be the start or the end of this, and if I am then I'm doing it wrong too.
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In reply to post #8
Quote by NFG:
I don't know this man's story, specifically, bu I can say from experience that there are people you just can't help, no matter how much you want to.  Whether it's pride or fear or disinterest, some people will simply rebuff your attempts to assist, and that's annoying, but a fact of life. 

I know people like this, who simply can't understand what they're doing wrong but refuse all attempts to tell them.  When this person snaps, it might not be a result of neglect or inattention, it's very possible that there was nothing to be done.

EXACTLY!

you can try to convince a paranoid schizophrenic that the government hasnt implanted a chip in their brain, show them xrays of their skull, put them in an MRI machine and everything that could show or disable such a device but you just cant convince them that there isnt a chip in there that's transmitting their thoughts to the CIA.

did this man have some mental illness?  i would put money on it.


Quote by Kendrick:
I may not be personally able to help out a severely autistic nephew who is old enough to physically hurt his parents. Is it worth me trying to effect change in the rest of the world a little bit, so that life is easier for the people without common sense and empathy, and their caregivers?

you have made a mistake, you have mentally created an emotional tie between this nephew and this guy who lost it.  they are completely different situations.


Quote by Kendrick:
It's obviously too late for James Lee, but if any good is to come out of his situation then there should be a recognition of others like him.

there isnt a chance in hell there will be recognition of what made him snap because we dont know.  there are a lot more crappy situations that the media will shove in your face and then it fades into oblivion by the next day.  there will be/was no analysis of why he lost it and even his demands were a footnote to the situation.  nobody will remember this guy for anything other than being a loon that snapped.


Quote by Kendrick:
My life is probably too short to be successful, but I can't stop trying because I need to count on others to pick up where I leave off. I shouldn't be the start or the end of this, and if I am then I'm doing it wrong too.

your efforts are misguided because society doesnt give a shit about suffering unless they can see it.  out of sight, out of mind.  people are starving, being slaughtered, being mutilated and other horrible things in africa but nobody cares because they dont see it.  even if they do see something awful, they ignore it if they can or take no action.  it's a harsh reality but it's always been like that and isnt changing any millennium soon.

what you should be focusing on is the development of technology that can prevent/predict these defects.


P.S. if anybody has any ideas about how to remove this chip in my brain, please share.
This post was edited 3 times, last on 2010-09-05, 12:47 by Gravis.
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